I appreciate the work that you’re doing to try to make scientific sense of the rise in transgender identification. I do want to offer a perspective. It’s been known for some time that transgender identification has risen astronomically in natal females over the past 10 years. The book “Irreversible Damage” by Abigail Shrier covers this extensively. I’ve often seen it stated that many or even the majority of these females are same-sex attracted and are gender non-conforming, but I haven’t seen much evidence to back this up. What are you basing this statement on?
In my personal, limited experience with my daughter and others I’m aware of, this is actually not the case. Until declaring a transgender identity at age 14 she was a very feminine girl, and it’s become clear as she’s gotten older that she is primarily or solely attracted to males.
I think this is important because it raises the question of whether there is a biological basis for transgenderism, or whether it is strictly a psychological and social phenomenon. Transgender activism is based on the assumption that it is a biologically determined, inborn trait that is not changeable. If this were true, then the position of activists would make sense - of course we should try to identify people with this trait as young as possible and treat them medically to relieve their suffering. Of course parents should accept and encourage this medical treatment, and those who do not are unfit parents and children should be removed from their care. Of course society should bend over backward to accommodate people with this medical condition, and insurance should pay for treatment. But as soon as you question the assumption that it is an inborn trait, the whole house of cards falls down.
I tend to believe it is a socially influenced psychological condition. It seems like you have the view that it does have a medical cause, but that cause is not inborn or permanent and can potentially be treated in other ways. It would be interesting to see what evidence exists, and how high the quality of that evidence is, that there are biological differences in trans-identifying people even prior to medical transition.
In the 70's, 80's, 90's, real transgenders were considered the homosexual ones.
From the book of Shrier:
"Many of the girls now being cornered into a trans identity might, in an
earlier era, have come out as gay."
“You’ve got a situation where young
lesbians are being pressured if they don’t give into this new idea of what it is
to be a lesbian,” prominent gay writer Julia D. Robertson told me. That “new
dea” is that lesbians do not exist: girls with more masculine presentations
are “really” boys."
A good % of FtM are asexual and a minor % are attracted to men (heterosexual). In some heterosexual FtM there happens a transition in sexual attractions alongside the transition in gender, so they are similar to homosexual FtM.
For the asexual FtM the motivation may be a desire to remain a child and be non-binary.
Mental health issues are a possible explanation for FtM that are attracted to men before and after transition. The book of Shrier says that half of transgender girls were engaging in self-harm prior to the onset of the gender dysphoria. Depression, anxiety, multiple personality disorder, body dysmorphic disorder etc. could cause a girl to feel dissatisfied with her body and gender role.
I read the arguments of the book for the contagion factor and yes it is important, but less than it seems, because there are other factors also that increase gender dysphoria in general, and some especially in girls:
1) Indeed transgenders spend a lot of time online: 4.5 hours more screen time than their peers: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38719179/. This means that they also sleep less, have less physical activity, more obesity (hence more endocrine problems); are more mentally exhausted; have less socialization skills etc. All these feed into gender dysphoria.
2) Gender dysphoria in a lot of FtM begins in adolescence, but this is not necessarily because of socialization, but also because when the gonads jumpstart the production of sexual hormones their function is not smooth until fully developed and the hormones fluctuate. Especially in children with obesity or an inflammatory diet and lifestyle. The ovaries of adolescent girls have more cysts, produce more testosterone. Adolescent boys have more gynecomastia because they may have a temporary female hormone increase. A lot of adolescent girls get depressed due to the hormonal changes and inflammation.
Any possible masculinization or underdevelopment in the brain areas responsible for reproduction that has happened starting from the fetus stage will become evident once the ovaries begin to function under the signals from the brain. If the signals are faulty, the ovaries also will have disturbed hormonal production and this will be reflected in the behavior and appearance of the girls.
Bisexual women also have much higher rates of gender dysphoria than heterosexual women. Sexual attractions are less vulnerable to contagion than gender identity, being instinctual in nature, so what's behind this increase in bisexuality in females?
4) There is less selective pressure for feminine females. Before the development of modern medicine, women with reproductive problems and who were less feminine could not have children or their children died due to malnutrition. Today these females have children and pass their genes over to their daughters.
5) The effect of endocrine disruptors, inflammatory diet, sleep deprivation, lack of beneficial pathogens etc is piling up from generation to generation. The experiments on animals show this additive effect through several generations.
Contagion should be more of a factor for the behavioral aspect of the disorder. What the person with gender dysphoria does to feel less stressed is a conscious decision that is influenced by a lot of factors including peer pressure.
I appreciate the work that you’re doing to try to make scientific sense of the rise in transgender identification. I do want to offer a perspective. It’s been known for some time that transgender identification has risen astronomically in natal females over the past 10 years. The book “Irreversible Damage” by Abigail Shrier covers this extensively. I’ve often seen it stated that many or even the majority of these females are same-sex attracted and are gender non-conforming, but I haven’t seen much evidence to back this up. What are you basing this statement on?
In my personal, limited experience with my daughter and others I’m aware of, this is actually not the case. Until declaring a transgender identity at age 14 she was a very feminine girl, and it’s become clear as she’s gotten older that she is primarily or solely attracted to males.
I think this is important because it raises the question of whether there is a biological basis for transgenderism, or whether it is strictly a psychological and social phenomenon. Transgender activism is based on the assumption that it is a biologically determined, inborn trait that is not changeable. If this were true, then the position of activists would make sense - of course we should try to identify people with this trait as young as possible and treat them medically to relieve their suffering. Of course parents should accept and encourage this medical treatment, and those who do not are unfit parents and children should be removed from their care. Of course society should bend over backward to accommodate people with this medical condition, and insurance should pay for treatment. But as soon as you question the assumption that it is an inborn trait, the whole house of cards falls down.
I tend to believe it is a socially influenced psychological condition. It seems like you have the view that it does have a medical cause, but that cause is not inborn or permanent and can potentially be treated in other ways. It would be interesting to see what evidence exists, and how high the quality of that evidence is, that there are biological differences in trans-identifying people even prior to medical transition.
Hi Dee, some studies on sexual orientation in transgenders: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33483604/; https://www.reddit.com/r/SampleSize/s/IWmaCwtadS.
In the 70's, 80's, 90's, real transgenders were considered the homosexual ones.
From the book of Shrier:
"Many of the girls now being cornered into a trans identity might, in an
earlier era, have come out as gay."
“You’ve got a situation where young
lesbians are being pressured if they don’t give into this new idea of what it is
to be a lesbian,” prominent gay writer Julia D. Robertson told me. That “new
dea” is that lesbians do not exist: girls with more masculine presentations
are “really” boys."
A good % of FtM are asexual and a minor % are attracted to men (heterosexual). In some heterosexual FtM there happens a transition in sexual attractions alongside the transition in gender, so they are similar to homosexual FtM.
For the asexual FtM the motivation may be a desire to remain a child and be non-binary.
Mental health issues are a possible explanation for FtM that are attracted to men before and after transition. The book of Shrier says that half of transgender girls were engaging in self-harm prior to the onset of the gender dysphoria. Depression, anxiety, multiple personality disorder, body dysmorphic disorder etc. could cause a girl to feel dissatisfied with her body and gender role.
I read the arguments of the book for the contagion factor and yes it is important, but less than it seems, because there are other factors also that increase gender dysphoria in general, and some especially in girls:
1) Indeed transgenders spend a lot of time online: 4.5 hours more screen time than their peers: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38719179/. This means that they also sleep less, have less physical activity, more obesity (hence more endocrine problems); are more mentally exhausted; have less socialization skills etc. All these feed into gender dysphoria.
2) Gender dysphoria in a lot of FtM begins in adolescence, but this is not necessarily because of socialization, but also because when the gonads jumpstart the production of sexual hormones their function is not smooth until fully developed and the hormones fluctuate. Especially in children with obesity or an inflammatory diet and lifestyle. The ovaries of adolescent girls have more cysts, produce more testosterone. Adolescent boys have more gynecomastia because they may have a temporary female hormone increase. A lot of adolescent girls get depressed due to the hormonal changes and inflammation.
Any possible masculinization or underdevelopment in the brain areas responsible for reproduction that has happened starting from the fetus stage will become evident once the ovaries begin to function under the signals from the brain. If the signals are faulty, the ovaries also will have disturbed hormonal production and this will be reflected in the behavior and appearance of the girls.
3) The stats show a strong increase in female bisexuals compared to lesbians, gay and bisexual men: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Percent-of-US-18-to-24-year-olds-identifying-as-bisexual-gay-or-lesbian-by-sex_fig4_373799070.
Bisexual women also have much higher rates of gender dysphoria than heterosexual women. Sexual attractions are less vulnerable to contagion than gender identity, being instinctual in nature, so what's behind this increase in bisexuality in females?
4) There is less selective pressure for feminine females. Before the development of modern medicine, women with reproductive problems and who were less feminine could not have children or their children died due to malnutrition. Today these females have children and pass their genes over to their daughters.
5) The effect of endocrine disruptors, inflammatory diet, sleep deprivation, lack of beneficial pathogens etc is piling up from generation to generation. The experiments on animals show this additive effect through several generations.
Contagion should be more of a factor for the behavioral aspect of the disorder. What the person with gender dysphoria does to feel less stressed is a conscious decision that is influenced by a lot of factors including peer pressure.